Looks like kiteboards are now in the canadian regulations. Same rules as windsurfing. I wonder if they will start ticketing outside of the Toronto Port Authority? Also, inflatable jackets have been banned
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2009/2009-04-25/html/reg1-eng.html#reg

QUOTE:

(2) In the case of a sailboard or kiteboard, no person shall use a personal flotation device or lifejacket fitted with an automatic inflator.

Sailboards and Kiteboards

219. A sailboard or kiteboard is not required to carry on board life-saving appliances, vessel safety equipment or firefighting equipment if

(a) the operator is wearing a personal flotation device of an appropriate size that is not fitted with an automatic inflator; or

(b) the operator is engaged in an official competition at which a safety craft is in attendance and carrying on board a personal flotation device or lifejacket of an appropriate size for the operator that can be donned in the water.

FISH from the windsurf forum provides some history on the battle here: http://www.windsurfcanada.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1285

This is proposed regulations. If we are going to try to argue for an exemption for kiteboards, a submission needs to be made within 30 days to here.....


PROPOSED REGULATORY TEXT

Notice is hereby given that the Governor in Council, pursuant to paragraph 35(1)(d) and sections 120 and 207 of the Canada Shipping Act, 2001 (see footnote a), proposes to make the annexed Small Vessel Regulations.

Interested persons may make representations with respect to the proposed Regulations to the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities within 30 days after the date of publication of this notice. All such representations must be in writing and cite the Canada Gazette, Part I, and the date of publication of this notice, and be sent to Kevin Monahan, Project Manager, Department of Transport, Place de Ville, Tower C, 330 Sparks Street, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N5 (Tel.: 613-998-8207; fax: 613-991-5670; e-mail: kevin.monahan@tc.gc.ca).

My questions

1. Has anyone ever drowned kiteboarding?
2. What are the negative impacts of wearing a lifejacket?

QUOTE:
1. Has anyone ever drowned kiteboarding?
2. What are the negative impacts of wearing a lifejacket?

first off i am all about pro-choice, and would not be happy about mandatory pfd use.

anyways, i know of a couple incidents of drowning, but culminated due to some sort of impact or illness (heart attack,etc). i pretty much almost drowned once trying to relaunch for half an hour, my 18 aero2 1 km offshore of sauble main beach - (upon retrospect i would of ditched the kite and swam in if the situation was dire) regardless it was not a fun place to be in.

as far as negative points we should just make up the same bullshit stories the windsurfers have, and go with that.

the best pfd is to ride with a buddy, cause if yer alone and fucked up, well yer - alone and fucked.

Yeah, I'm pro-choice on this. My personal choice is to wear one, to keep the cops away (and my wife happy).

Still, why on earth would anyone wear an "automatic inflating" life jacket. An automatic inflating life jacket automatically inflates when it gets wet. Huh?

So am I to understand that a manually inflatable life jacket is still cool? The regulation doesn't seem really very clear on this point.

Specifically, I have this vest, which explicitly requires manual inflation

See http://us.binnacle.com/product_info.php?cPath=39_40&products_id=699

I'm really looking forward to arguing semantics of automatic vs. manual with the cops.

Alright, My cousin warned me about this coming into effect. Also with the mandatory boaters license in effect for all powered water craft, they can take your road license away if you continue to break the rules or refuse to pay the fines.

OKA are you still out there? Time to step up to the plate! and do something other than make your resumes look good, and collecting a petition of names.


Smokey

Ps they have to catch you, to fine you! Good luck at the beaches I ride at.

This sucks!

Someone wanna show some pictures of PFD's interfering with the safety releases,
or riding up and creating a choking hazard for the user,

Compare to other areas in the U.S. and Europe, does anywhere else have kiteboarding life jacket regulations?

If no

Then draw the obvious relationship between these two points.

Ie. we appreaciate T.C. trying to become a world pioneer in safety for kiteboarding but by trying to apply blanket laws from boating it is clear the sport and equipment of kiteboarding is not well understood and that the effect of this law is not an increase in safety but rather the closing of a perceived loop hole in the law to make fines more enforceable. Based on the need for fire suppression systems, it is very clear that little research has been done to understand the safety systems and requirements that are unique to kiteboarding. Since life jacket laws for kiteboarding don't exist anywhere else in the world suitable PFD's also don'texist which account for upward pull from the harness (often with forces many times the riders weight. (show photo of dude choking) And proper release of the safety systems which take power out of the kite in the event of an extreme wind gust, loss of control or equipment failure that would require the kite to remain grounded. (show safety release, show safety release f'd up by life jacket.

In addition kiteboarding has other unique requirements that require the rider separate from their board. To retrieve the board a technique known as body dragging is used. Describe body dragging and how the added boyancy of life jackets F's with upwind body dragging, thus introducng the need for board leashes show photo's of f'd faces from board leashes and related links. Making point that the proposed law not only does litte to improve rider safety but actual may inadvertantly have the effect of increased injury.

Sounds like this community needs some pro bono leagal work....any takers?

First loophole.

I just going to ride my surfboard all the time.

I'm sorry officer, this is not a kiteboard. It is a surfboard. I'm a surfer using a kite to catch waves....

Board Mental wrote:

QUOTE:
Someone wanna show some pictures of PFD's interfering with the safety releases,
or riding up and creating a choking hazard for the user,

Compare to other areas in the U.S. and Europe, does anywhere else have kiteboarding life jacket regulations?

If no

Then draw the obvious relationship between these two points.

Ie. we appreaciate T.C. trying to become a world pioneer in safety for kiteboarding but by trying to apply blanket laws from boating it is clear the sport and equipment of kiteboarding is not well understood and that the effect of this law is not an increase in safety but rather the closing of a perceived loop hole in the law to make fines more enforceable. Based on the need for fire suppression systems, it is very clear that little research has been done to understand the safety systems and requirements that are unique to kiteboarding. Since life jacket laws for kiteboarding don't exist anywhere else in the world suitable PFD's also don'texist which account for upward pull from the harness (often with forces many times the riders weight. (show photo of dude choking) And proper release of the safety systems which take power out of the kite in the event of an extreme wind gust, loss of control or equipment failure that would require the kite to remain grounded. (show safety release, show safety release f'd up by life jacket.

In addition kiteboarding has other unique requirements that require the rider separate from their board. To retrieve the board a technique known as body dragging is used. Describe body dragging and how the added boyancy of life jackets F's with upwind body dragging, thus introducng the need for board leashes show photo's of f'd faces from board leashes and related links. Making point that the proposed law not only does litte to improve rider safety but actual may inadvertantly have the effect of increased injury.

Sounds like a safe activity, maybe we should consider whether this should be permited at all? I don't think I'd be informing TC about all the dangers of kiteboarding.

QUOTE:
Sounds like a safe activity, maybe we should consider whether this should be permited at all? I don't think I'd be informing TC about all the dangers of kiteboarding.

I was thinking the same thing! Drawing attention to the dangers we face every time we get on the water.... well lets just say, I won't be telling my insurance company that I am kiting! I also don't tell them that I speed when I am driving....somethings are just better left unsaid.

Sincerely

Pete

QUOTE:
Sounds like a safe activity, maybe we should consider whether this should be permited at all? I don't think I'd be informing TC about all the dangers of kiteboarding.

Agreed. A legitimate argument is that a PFD is more likely to break your ribs than an impact vest, but I'm not sure if that fact will work in our favour.

QUOTE:
Sounds like this community needs some pro bono leagal work....any takers?

Well 1 of the 5 board members of the OKA is a lawyer, and a good kiteboarder too!

Hint, Hint!

It would also be nice to have what ever will be submitted to the TC posted on here to get the communities, input and acceptance.

I personally think we should be pointing out the dangers of the sport, in reguards to the life jackets and how they hinder our safety on the water.
Did you guys know that even the TC admits the at if you get knocked out on the water with a coast guard approved safety vest on you still only have a 30% chance of survival.

If you have a life jacket on and enough power in the kite to ride, and in deep enough water to be considered safe you have a zero chance of controlling yourself and where you go, you are now at the mercy of the wind and will be blown into anything that may be down wind of you. Real safe.

I believe if the OKA would actually do something about education the masses we wouldn't be in this situation. OKA needs to take preventive measures! not wait until the shit hits the fan, to pick up what ever pieces that are left to work with. essentially fighting a lost cause with our hands tied behind our backs.

MHO

Smokey

Here's what the OKA's is planning to do about the pfd issue (input very much appreciated):

-Collect ideas through membership and online forums to help make argument against making pfd use mandatory (already a ton of good ideas flowing on this site)

-Set up an online petition to show support for making pfd use optional (asap)
Circulate info about this petition across canada, shops, schools, etc (asap)

-Since this is a national issue, try to get other Canadian organizations either working themselves, or supporting the OKA effort (in progress)

-Reach out to windsurfing contacts, they have fought this battle before, could be useful resources available to help (in progress)

-Reach out to notable, 3rd party kiteboarding authorities (IKO, PASA, other?) and get a written opinion on the concerns over pfd use (in progress)

-Use all this info to prepare a document on behalf of OKA membership outlining concerns with making pfd use mandatory

-Contact the Kevin Monahan of the department of transport direct and try to set up a meeting (in progess, he is away until Friday)

-Publish a list of federal MPs and encourage kiters to contact their MPs about this issue. Have a draft letter available that kiters can cut and paste from

The larger the OKA membership base the more impact this approach will have. If you support this approach please sign up at http://kiteboardontario.com/?page_id=2


If you want to help or feel you have some useful input contact matt@kiteboardontario.com

just moved this to the Ontario Kiteboarding section of the forum so this thread doesn't get lost in the depths of The Flock.